Copyright discussion - DIY DisplayXR - McLaren PCU-6C replica

[Flyer]

I think that McLaren brand is a registered brand worldwide, same for PCU-6C registered TM.
Did you guys asked permission to use those big logos ?
Maybe in Spain there are different laws about the international copyright... who can know ?
Yes i agree, is a DIY project, not "an article to sell"... just a PCB to sell...
Please guys, share with us the part list with components cost and, do i need some MCU programmer for put the firmware ?
I noticed another particular... it's an HID device with USB 2.0 connection, did you guys paid USB.org asking for uniques VID and PID (VendorID, ProductID) for your device ? If not, you choosed a VID and PID combination random... so a unlegal USB device that can create conflict with other USB pheripherals ! Last but not at least, which precautions are used about EMC ? Do that unit prevent/regulate the electro-magnetic emissions ?? 48Mhz (USB 2.0 freq) is a little bit high to forget the EMC...
Good job guys, and good luck with laws.

lol

[willynovi]

flyer, it´s realy necesary to do wath you are doing?
If you don´t like DisplayXR, why don´t you try building your own Display?

[Frakk]

I think you should think about what you are saying.

"Yes i agree, is a DIY project, not "an article to sell"... just a PCB to sell..."

You just proved your points falls. They are not copying anything and they are not selling anything related to McLaren. Where did you get that from? Anything that is DIY, you can do whatever. I can make my exact copy of any electronic device, steal the PCB plans, firmware and schematic without interfering with any laws (maybe not for the stealing part). If I am not selling it and making it for my own use, nobody can sue me. Leave alone if you are in an other country...

And please educate yourself about EMI and RF before you make such comments. Especially on your first post.

[egoexpress]

They provided the pcb layout free of charge (in Gerber format).
http://downloads.xtremeracers.net/XRdis ... vorota.rar

So I guess they didnt sell the pcbs. They just may have organised some private group order for the pcbs, as they are quite expensive, if one orders just a single one from an etching service.
Still a non-commercial project afaik.

Regarding the USB devices. As long as they dont sell them, they can pretty much DIY what they want.

However, where are the "big logos" anyway?

[bvillersjr]

Hi Frakk,

You are quite correct. In most countries, no legal action can be brought against you for reproducing a commercial product for your own use. It is only when you reproduce a commercial product and try to sell it (and in some countries, even give it) to others that you can get yourself into trouble. Please note that when I say "give it", I am not referring to plans, but to a complete product. The only time that I am aware of that you can get into problems giving away plans for something is if you reverse engineered a patent protected commercial product and distributed the plans.

Another obvious exception to the above is something that has a license agreement.

There are many advantages to being a DIY'r! For example, As a DIY'r, I am easily able to obtain and use a low cost non CE / ROHS compliant power supply. However, as a business, I am unable to sell or export products that do not meet these requirements in most countries. It is costly to meet these requirements in many cases, which ultimately adds to the cost of a commercial product. The inspection process alone (as I'm sure you are aware) can cost thousands. I think that this is one of the reasons why a DIY project can always be more cost effective.

[Frakk]

Bernard, you don't have to reverse engineer a patented product, the engineering is all public. One filing for a patent has to make all details of the product available. If you go on any sites that list the existing patents, you can download manuals, blueprints, specification and every detail on what is actually patented. This is great for us!

I don't want to hijack the original thread with all this legal stuff, but I'll add this more:

Patents will not protect a design. Patents will only give the right to sue people or companies using your design. And even then, the smallest change will make it a new product, so there isn't really a point. You see this every day with fake, lookalike electronics (and everything else) coming from China.

As far as this project is concerned, there is absolutely no argument to be made about trademarks, copyrights or patents for numerous reasons like:
-It is not a product.
-They are not selling a design, either their own, neither anyone else's. Everything is free to use.
-The only thing they ask money for is the manufacturing price of the PCB's and labor, there is no copyright in that.
-Even if they sold PCB's for someone else's publicly available design, they would only be selling the material, labor, shipping and handling, packaging, etc, and NOT the design itself.

Having said that, all the props to those who contribute these great projects to the community! Otherwise we couldn't feed the family after having all that money spent on sim gear.

[bvillersjr]

Bernard, you don't have to reverse engineer a patented product, the engineering is all public. One filing for a patent has to make all details of the product available. If you go on any sites that list the existing patents, you can download manuals, blueprints, specification and every detail on what is actually patented. This is great for us!

I don't want to hijack the original thread with all this legal stuff, but I'll add this more:

Patents will not protect a design. Patents will only give the right to sue people or companies using your design. And even then, the smallest change will make it a new product, so there isn't really a point. You see this every day with fake, lookalike electronics (and everything else) coming from China.

As far as this project is concerned, there is absolutely no argument to be made about trademarks, copyrights or patents for numerous reasons like:
-It is not a product.
-They are not selling a design, either their own, neither anyone else's. Everything is free to use.
-The only thing they ask money for is the manufacturing price of the PCB's and labor, there is no copyright in that.
-Even if they sold PCB's for someone else's publicly available design, they would only be selling the material, labor, shipping and handling, packaging, etc, and NOT the design itself.

Having said that, all the props to those who contribute these great projects to the community! Otherwise we couldn't feed the family after having all that money spent on sim gear.

Quite true, the cross border issues are difficult to defend against. In the U.S., the biggest gorilla tends to win. Long story short, the bigger company keeps the smaller company (regardless of small changes) tied up in litigation until the smaller company (or individual) is bankrupt trying to defend themselves. I think thats why large companies get patents, and small companies tend to not bother. The moral of the story is, "be careful who you ripoff". If they are big enough and motivated to, they WILL sink you. If you doubt this, make a knock-off of some Microsoft or Logitech hardware and try selling it publically.

I guess we are pretty far off topic here though :-) As everyone seems to agree, there isnt much of a legal issue here.

[Flyer]

Ok guys, maybe i talk a dead language or ?!? Who said that is copied from the PCU-6C ? I talked about registered brand and mark, of course, you can copy a product and, if not selled, "no problem"...
I read in thread name "DisplayXR - McLaren PCU-6C replica", can you ? Well PCU-6C is a registered TM, so commercial or not, nobody worlwide can use it ! Go to read more about it...

Than go to USB.org, download the developers docs and read, read, read.... So you will find out that is not possible to assign arbitrary PID/VID to a USB Hid device, because if so, you will damage not only your device stability, but most important, ALL OTHER USB DEVICES, released and selled from companies that HAS PAID FOR THOSE UNIQUE NUMBERS ! So in this case DIY or not , anything change.

And more, please teach me about EMI , RF... i want to learn... and PLEASE, start to explain where is the power choke coil on USB power for reduce the emissions... where is mate ? OHHHH, now it's clear, since is a DIY you can irradiate all you want around your home, really ? YES, i agree, you can since is not a commercial product... Now i start to study, during that, you can start to use a oscilloscope to watch what that pcb does when you use it... absolute unbelievable ! If you don t have one, try with a AM radio, is good enough....ahahahahahahah. What we are talking about ???

Please stop with bullshit, respect rules and get a life.

[Flyer]

#Frakk

"I can make my exact copy of any electronic device, steal the PCB plans, firmware and schematic without interfering with any laws (maybe not for the stealing part). If I am not selling it and making it for my own use, nobody can sue me."

You joking really ?

You can ONLY because nobody will know that you did it that for your home... exactly like the thief that does robbery without any eyes around...

Have you never done electronic measurements in your life ?

[Flyer]

#willynovi

yes, it's necessary ! Use the serial port and cable if you don t want to pay 2K dollars to USB.org and respect who did it. Don t use registered trademarks for divulgate your DIY, you have a custom name (DisplayXR) use it, is good enough. NOT PCU-6C replica, because we all know the power of search engines...
And i can ONLY suggest you to study better the schematic, so you will easy know why a power chocke coil is NECESSARY on that circuit.