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[bvillersjr]

http://www.x-simulator.de/beta/xsimbeta2104.zip

[MasterYoda]

Thanks a lot Bernard.

Feedback on new Cmdr sent by MP.

BTW, tested the Evo profile with GTP and it was really nice.

BTW2, x-sim 2.1.0.4 is really nice, much smoother movements than before.

Cheers,

Me

[splendiddd]

I tested the LFS profile with Dirt 2.

Its a good basic profile, but i prefer more hill up/down like effects with games like dirt.
I know its not a profile for Dirt, but the LFS ones only work.
I will test the other profiles for like GTR evo soon.

Thanks for your work!

[Schnullerbacke]

Hi Bernard,

many thanks for your profile pack !

I downloaded it today and tested it with this environment:

- X-Sim² 2.1.0.4
- Vista64 (Game PC)
- XP Pro SP3 (X-Sim PC)
- GTR Evo
- Track: Nordschleife
- WTCC Extreme
- Car: BMW E90
- SCN5-setting: 22000 speed, 400 acceleration
- 25% limiter

All movements were very smooth, no extreme shaking or joggling, everything just fine !

At high speed with max rpm there were nearly no effects anymore... as soon as I reduced speed/rpm, the effects came back. I'd like to have more lateral forces at high speed.

It would also be great if the uphill and downhill effects would be more distinctive - now I just feel not that much if I drive uphill... maybe there's a possibility to increase this effect !?

The last one on my wishlist (*fg*) would be more curbs-feeling and more gear-shake.

All things considered, this profile is very good and I thank you once again for sharing !

Bye,
Chris

[Schnullerbacke]

Hi Bernard and Erick !

Yesterday I tested your profiles again (BMW GTR Evo from Bernard's profile pack and this one http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/2-1-0-4-race-on-profile-100mm-scn5-by-master-yoda-t2145.html from you, Erick).

When driving with Erick's profile I recognized very short shocks and joggles and it doesn't seem to fit to MY sim this good...
When driving Bernard's profile all effects are smooth and I even can drive with higher acceleration value in the SCN5 settings !

The biggest difference FOR ME was, that in Erick's profile there was the uphill and downhill effect, which I'm completely missing in Bernard's profile, as described in my last posting. You know what I mean ?
Which effect is responsible for up- and downhill ?

Maybe you could implement this up- and downhill effect to your GTR Evo BMW profile, Bernard ??? Would be THAT great !!! Especially the track Nordschleife offers much ups and downs and it would be great to FEEL this too !

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[ledfoot]

Hi Chris,

The Pitch and Roll effects will will allow you to feel the effects of hills as well as bumps in the road. The higher the acceleration value, the more these effects will be amplified. To properly feel these effects, you should have adequate dampening of the actuators or it will feel like a car without shock absorbers .

....Mike

[bvillersjr]

Thanks for all the feeedback guys. It is very interesting to see the different reactions to profiles on various simulator designs.

@Shnullerbacke- You are correct about the uphill / down hill (which is pitch as well as some vertical). I have intentionally minimized this effect until I come up with a more effective way to include it. The theory is simple - Incorrect motion cues are worse than having no motion at all IMHO. Therefore I focus on reinforcing immersion with only the effects that I can reproduce extremely accurately. I as well as Mike and Nima are working on some approaches that will include all effects without compromising realism.

Mike is also correct that it is very important to have appropriate dampening on your simualtor. In almost all of my test cases, the negative motion cues are related to improper mixing, contradictory effects, or jertkiness as has been mentioned above. My simulators have a dual dampening system that allows for hand adjustable dampening. With this I can overcome most of the unecessary roughness that results from using pitch and roll. However, I would prefer a mathematical solution that will apply to those who have chosen to use aluminium as well.

[MasterYoda]

Bernard,

I believe a reasonable reaction from pitch and roll will depend more on the rig design style than the profile itself.
I am not sure if you can have a good reaction for those parameters from a 2DOF moving seat.
When I changed my rig design to a motion platform I noticed it reacted much better to pitch and roll and not so good to accel anymore.
Then, I have to somehow invert the profiles, giving more emphasis on pitch and roll, and reducing lat accel. Long accel is still a good feeling.

I would like to have some feedback from a moving seat owner on my Green Hell profile.
It just feels amazing here, but I don't know how it would feel on the 2dof moving seat, I don't believe the pitch would feel very nice.

Cheers.

MY

[bvillersjr]

@MasterYoda

What you are saying makes sense. I have observed both 2DOF seat and full cockpit designs. In fact my motion base is designed to accomodate both and SimXperience will offer an F1 cockpit in 2010. IMHO, the reason that your statement holds true is as follows:

-Pitch, Roll and Yaw are output by the games less granularly (look at the min and max numbers in any profile to see this) therefore they are by nature prone to be more jumpy than the more finely grained g-force effects. Additionally, body roll is a contradictory simulator movement to lateral G-Forces which causes these effects to conflict.

-Jumpiness and/or jerkiness of effects can be countered in several ways
a.) proper dampening mechanisms
b.) adding load to the actuators
c.) reducing accel values

In the case of a full cockpit atop a motion base, the actuators are forced to move the weight of the drivers legs, steering wheel, pedals, and additional rig to support these items. This adds load to the actuators and therfore smooths the jerky motions. You can easily witness the smoothing effect of load on your actuators by getting out of your sim and letting the rFactor AI driver run a few laps. Without the load, the motions will be VERY jerky.

In my case, I desire to keep the load at a minumum which increases maximum actuator speed and life. In order to accomplish this combination of high speed movement and rid myslef of any jerky motions, I utilize hand adjustable dampers. The side benefit is that it makes the motion more fluid as it would be in a real vehicle without compromising actuator speed when making quick direction changes.

The concept of whether or not pitch itself belongs in a seat only profile is an interesting debate. I think that it is possible to properly mix this effect without adding negative motion queues and I think that Mike and Nima are getting close but in the end this is all a matter of personal preference.

I'll test your profile today in both scenarios. BTW, due to the increased load of your sim design, it is likely that seat moving sims will need to use far less accel when evaluating.

[Nima]

hi
wen you drive the rfactor ai you have other values as real driving.any velues higher
ca.x1000 on ai.Value 31,32,33
the last profil is nice now.we mast cut the last bugs.yesterday i have see one
any tracks make a littel problem. i want a feedback with track and the place on the track
were are you see a bug and than we can tweak this.is only a problem from the
min of values.